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English Rule, do not behave like a moderator.

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Poll Poll

Should we be banned for quoting a rule?

Only registered users are allowed to vote
Yes
20.00% (7)
No
37.14% (13)
Depends on the sitiuation (Post more info).
42.86% (15)
35 votes cast

old closed Poll Rule, do not behave like a moderator.

Yates
Reviewer Off Offline

Quote
The title is a bit vague, so I will go in to more detail now.

> Note, READ IT!: If you vote yes or no, please do not reply. Only if you have something to add that has not already been mentioned. So read all the posts before you reply, thanks.

Multiple times I and others have been banned for behaving like a moderator when only quoting a rule.
This rule states that we must not behave like moderators, is posting a rule behaving like one? I don't think so.

• Why is there a rule tag if not to be used? Makes no sense, if you only want mods to use this change it to be so instead of letting everyone use it.
• When someone joins this forum, they don't think "Oh, let's have a look at the rules." They just create a thread and that's that. Why should we be banned for telling them to read the rules or simply quoting the one which has been broken? Logic.
• When we quote the rules there is no need for a moderator to come in and quote it themselves, we're helping people to read them (Even though most of them ignore it) so why should we be banned for that?
• What I think behaving like a mod is is posting stuff like "Do not do this or you will be banned." - This sounds more like behaving like a moderator as you don't have the authority to actually decide if someone gets banned or not.

DC, please consider to change this rule to make it less vague. Posting rules is fine (Unless it gets spammed multiple times), sure it's commenting on a rule violation but the person that violated it won't read the rules unless someone tells him to. Following them is entirely up to the person himself, but it does help most of the times.

> Again, read the note above!
edited 1×, last 27.04.12 02:48:18 pm

old Re: Rule, do not behave like a moderator.

palomino
User Off Offline

Quote
Thing is, some people don't know the rules, and you have to point em to the rule they've broken, while mods usually just quote that same rules and tempban. Maybe, if we show the rule to some new member, he will edit the post for it not to contain anything against the rules.

I also suggest creating a new user group, people, who will point new members to the rule they've broken, and that wouldn't be banned for quoting rules. *cough* I could do that job just fine, for example *cough*

old Re: Rule, do not behave like a moderator.

DC
Admin Off Offline

Quote
I'm glad that you question the rules but I have to tell you that all rules at this website are very well-conceived and that there are plenty very good reasons for all of the existing rules.

It's quite easy to explain why ordinary users should NOT behave like moderators: Because it causes spam. Even worse: It actually multiplies the existing number of spam and off-topic posts.

simple scenario - without the rule:
• user 1: "spam spam spam"
• user 2: "hey, stop that"
• user 3: "Rules §2.1 - No needless and/or doubled posts (spam)"

× off-topic/spam post amount multiplied by 3.

same scenario - with the rule:
• user 1: "spam spam spam"

√ User receives a temp ban or at least a little red admin/mod comment. No additional spam posts.


To answer your questions/points:
• Why is there a rule tag: It's there for moderators and temp bans. It's placed there automatically and it is automatically displayed in the right language. It's not even listed on the tag page.
• Why bans for quoting rules? See my sample. It causes spam.
• No moderator needed when users quote rules: That's right but users create additional spam/off-topic posts + they can't punish the user who violated the rule.

I voted for "Depends on the sitiuation (Post more info)." anyway. Why? Because it actually IS okay to post a rule if you add non-off-topic content to your post. Like:
Quote
<thread related stuff>

oh btw, user X you just violated rule XYZ

I would never ever tempban someone for such a post - but just posting the rule means another pointless post.

old Re: Rule, do not behave like a moderator.

EngiN33R
Moderator Off Offline

Quote
user palomino: You probably meant a group consisting of three people - 'me, myself and I', am I correct?

But well, the rule prevents shitstorms on threads - you could see that when there's a thread that breaks the rules. There's at least 3 brave people pointing out the broken rule and the mental retardation of the author, which is essentially needless posts. Moderators and DC have the duty of pointing out mistakes to people, when regular users do it - it usually ends up badly and results in threads like this one, actually.

EDIT: Yet again, DC beat me by 5 seconds. Bravo.

old Re: Rule, do not behave like a moderator.

DC
Admin Off Offline

Quote
Oh just a little addition:
user DC has written
but just posting the rule means another pointless post.

You might argue that the post is not pointless if it tells another user that he violated a rule. That's right but the post is still pointless for the thread itself. It's off-topic. We don't want off-topic posts because it makes reading threads harder and less fun.

old Re: Rule, do not behave like a moderator.

Apache uwu
User Off Offline

Quote
I think DC just doesn't want spam, just make it solid-->if there is an obvious rule violation, don't comment on it!

However if it's troll I guess you could pm the user and let them know, that way it doesn't make the thread off-topic.

old Re: Rule, do not behave like a moderator.

Hador
User Off Offline

Quote
user palomino has written
@user EngiN33R: Not really. For example, people like me, Danny, Yates, Doberman, Time and Joaop. And some other mature people


A rather strange definition of mature.


I do not believe that pointing out the mistakes of others and creating shitloads of posts that usually just end up in some people discussing which rules really turned out to have been broken really helps.

I do, however, believe that broken rules should be allowed to be pointed out as long as having broken rules do not result in spam off-topic, which makes following the topic of the thread rather difficult and can also annoy the writer of topic enormously, as there is practically nothing he can do to remove the posts.

old Re: Rule, do not behave like a moderator.

Mechanolith
User Off Offline

Quote
user palomino has written
Joaop.

Actually i would find annoying to keep people informed about their rule violations - that's a work for the mods.

Basically what user Hador said.
It is really frustrating to get banned for quoting a rule, i wouldn't want to waste my time writing "hey, you just violated X rule, don't do that!", but rather be direct to the point with those people.
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