English Stranded III Dev. Blog - Comments

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28.10.20 09:44:34 am
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ohaz
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As far as I know, DC won't do that, because he has a full time job that earns enough money for him. Making a Patreon/Donations would "force" him to actually work on the project and that is a huuuuge motivation killer. This way, he doesn't feel obligated to work on stranded 3, which leads to a better game in the long term
https://ohaz.engineer - Software Engineering
28.10.20 05:23:19 pm
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Elfing
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You CAN donate to him: https://unrealsoftware.de/donate.php
28.10.20 08:54:49 pm
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DC
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user ohaz is totally right regarding all the donation/Patreon stuff. It's quite complicated.

Like user Elfing you can already donate via PayPal but please understand that this won't have any impact on the development of Stranded III because it's still "just" a free time hobby project.
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09.11.20 12:39:03 pm
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Hador
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So I read a whole bunch of blog posts again today together with their comments, lots of which asking when the game will be released, when we will get to play it etc.

Sure, I'd love to sit down and play the game some day, maybe work on some mods etc. But give it a few weeks or months, and that will probably start becoming boring (as it did to me with Stranded I and II).
But the blog just goes on. It's far from finished, is exciting to read and gets my coding mind's gears going pondering on the problems user DC faces. So in a way, the blog has, to me at least, become representative of what Stranded III is more than the game will likely ever be.

So thanks DC for providing such regular entertainment and brain food for people like me, and keep up the great work!
Hador
17.11.20 09:36:44 pm
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ModJuicer
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You should have a patreon where you upload new post-release maps and other fun things like extra 3d models, fun script add-ons, and different texture packs, like a different looking interface (buttons and stuff) and a different look overall. People could sub to for $1 (suggested) a month to get lots of extra fun. It would be better for everyone overall because then you would have a reason to be active in development after the release and there would be lots of extra fun stuff to make in your free time for everyone else to enjoy.
Go for it!
I would support you
file stranded2 Stranded II Enhanced (3) ---0o~~"Juicing Stranded II Mods Since 1999.99"~~o0--- thread stranded2 Stranded II Enhanced
18.11.20 01:51:33 am
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Assassin moder
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@user ModJuicer: just, no...
everything can be easily done by community, so everything could be easily spread for "free". Game will be heavily moddable, except source code so no point of doing that.

We all need to wait for alpha version where i bet will be some simple multiplayer stuff and moddable things that will allow making a pretty big playground
22.11.20 05:08:10 pm
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AssassinLV
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You can always think about 48min day (2min = 1h )...

I feel that 24 min day is very short - and within a single day we might not be able to build even the basic shelter - as we would have only 15-18 minutes to build it until it's dark again.
23.11.20 04:20:46 pm
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Jawohl
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that seems like plenty of time to me, you're able to do that in minecraft, and its basically the same time scale, though i guess since you will be spending most of your nights asleep, there's little risk to having longer days, as you will typically be sleeping throughout the nights.

i would love to see a simple stealth system utilized here though, nothing super advanced, but using LOS, lightness, player skill, and maybe whether or not the player is in brush

i remember titanium mod had a pretty decent stealth system implemented in s2
26.11.20 06:17:46 pm
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ModJuicer
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Quote:
user ModJuicer: just, no...
everything can be easily done by community, so everything could be easily spread for "free". Game will be heavily moddable, except source code so no point of doing that.


Actually now I agree. That last post was fueled by a state of mind that lasted for less than a day. I'm still not 100% accurate at distinguishing good ideas from bad ideas (though better than when I posted that 'underrated technology' post. That was horrible, now that I look back on it)

for example:

-Should regular users be able to contribute to stranded III dev with self-made 3d models? Would DC accept them?

-Is it a good Idea to implement objects that consist of multiple models? ex. trees that have limbs you can chop off because the branches are separate models.*

-Should items be broken into subcategories?**

-What ores/minerals should be included in the game (mining)

-Should the adventure be like the the one in SII?***

-How should the first tools be made? more realistic, requiring material to bond the rock to a stick ex. hammer or stone axe, or simpler with just a stick and a stone like in SII?

-How dangerous should regular gameplay mode be?****

-Should there be a mining shaft that is buildable? or maybe a cave that you can find and enter, which then transports you underground to mine? or both? Should there be indestructible rocks?

*note, the model could be made complete, than could be copied with each copy having most of the tree deleted except for a specific part (branch, trunk, etc), so that positioning would be perfect or near-perfect. Of course on each separate model the open parts would have to be capped off with a couple extra polygons textured with a stump texture so that it looks nice after you cut down a limb and also so you can't see through the rest of the tree.


**As in, if you have 20 different axes, you can click on the ax (x20) on your inventory and view all 20 different axes, which all have different wear/tear or other properties. This would make it easier to keep control of many of the same things with different properties. If there is a specific item that can not have different properties, it would simply have the number of items of that specific type, ex. x37 , but not let you view every single one since that's pointless cause they're all the same

***improvised. It was fun in some parts due to the creativity that went into work there (also some of the dialogue was humorous), but some parts were a drag, like having to get rid of all the seaweed near the dock in one of the last maps which took too long and for some reason, there was always one more that I missed.

****very dangerous would be having tigers and other predators to move at the actual speeds they do in real life. Easy would be having predators be like the lions in SII that you could hit while running backwards.


What are your opinions?

p.s. happy thanksgiving. DC should 3d model a turkey today (unless that's one of my bad ideas)


I was thinking of having some sort of donations available for S2E. Not for money (I would barely get any and it would be hardly worth the effort) but to see how much people actually care so I would know what my mod is worth to them. Good idea or bad idea?
edited 3×, last 26.11.20 06:36:14 pm
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28.11.20 03:33:20 pm
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VADemon
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I absolutely agree HUDs should be visible, not invisible.

On computers we only have 2 channels of communication: visual and acoustic (+input). We do not have our other senses, we do not "feel" hunger, thirst, tiredness that we do as humans. If you hide the HUD information for this, at best you will make us guess what the current "health", "stamina" etc values are (and we humans are poor at keeping track on time).

Hiding away into menus for "immersion"? Guys, I've played hundreds of hours of Arma2, all of these are present: Health Icon, Food, Water, Temperature, Visiblity, Loudness icons. Many servers add their own information windows ("debug" window that EVERY player has turned on, money on bank, team mate markers etc).

My immersion = is a flawless playing process. The less I have to fight with the game (check menus to know what my character is missing, feeding him to make sure he has food (i.e. Minecraft Beta 1.8 onwards)) the less time I have with the gameplay itself. Depending on what you consider gameplay, of course.

Wristwatches in a VR game? That's immersion.
A separate menu to see a hidden in-game watch? That's an obstacle.

Nobody uses watches in Minecraft (yes, they do display in-game time), they look up in the sky to estimate time. Only a few use the compass, instead they press F3. You can make a point that some would like to "roleplay" with all the in-game items without GUIs like F3 to look up coordinates and direction - but this is NOT a self-goal for many. They're playing for something else.
Many players enjoy messing around with cheats (trainers), creative and similar in singleplayer. THAT'S IMMERSION AS WELL, if that type of gameplay is appealing to them, magnetising.

The actual killer is distraction from the gameplay.
It's the consoles that have to hide away elements behind 100s of menus, because their controllers suck.
On PC you have far more accurate control with mouse+keyboard, more effective screen space that allows for more informational and interactive elements on the screen at any given time.

One of such examples is GTA5. It breaks all of the supposed immersion by not being adapted for PC at all. You actually cannot fly a helicopter with keyboard+mouse. Menus are all 4-5 points tall and hidden away, I have to search for items everytime I used them. The weapon selection sucks, that selection wheel has some black magic instead of comprehensible logic, I fought it everytime I wanted to switch a weapon.

On the other hand, take Serious Sam, one of the best shooters of all time: https://youtu.be/IhDGcRbVH1Q?t=293

HP, Armor, Current Ammo, Ammo of other weapons. It's all there is to the game, everything displayed. All I do is shoot dem alien invaders all game long, without thinking about the HUDs at all. Need to switch a weapon? I don't need to press 2 buttons to first see a HUD with ammo.

You are probably as tired of reading this as I'm tired of typing. I will conclude:

Modern user interface design is getting worse. Be it for software or games. Self-learning is not helped, but it is assumed a user magically knows and has been using software for the past 20 years, and does not need explanations. We have problems memorising something that's hidden behind 10 menus and something that has no visible description or title.

The visible editor controls are great. I actually wish games had controls overlays to make it easier for newcomers. (Where are these art designers when it comes to breaking immersion through bizarre/unknown controls?)
28.11.20 05:14:29 pm
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Masea
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Admired how they did it in Stranded Deep, actually. Nevertheless, you are right about the fact that pressing a button whenever it is demanded becomes a nuisance rather quickly.

In this case, I'd urge you to have a look at The Long Dark about how they designed their UI (and many other games) since it also shares quite a few features with your game too. If there is more than a couple of statistics of the main character that the player needs to see at all times, perhaps considering to display them only when necessary is your best bet when it comes to the simplistic UI design and such, for example when it is not full, or when the character has gained some sort of buff which enhances the specific statistic.

Games like Battlefield even hide their health bar when it is full, but continually keeps the health icon and as well as the actual health points. When the player health is lower than full, the bar also shows up and lets the player quickly know their current health (graphical is perceived quicker than numeric).
29.11.20 03:36:47 am
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ModJuicer
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Quote:
In the first iteration of that menu I also had a grid for the Y-axis (height) but I decided that this doesn't make much sense since height is commonly defined by the terrain.
That option might come back later depending on how things evolve but right now there is no real use for it.


Actually, y axis grid is very important. In sii titanium the game is way better with it. That is because being able to stack things in editor is very convenient. Also, you can build things in the air easily without having to move the model after the fact which is a pain.

Also, though, there should be an option for whether the y grid height is relative to the terrain or not. There have been many times that I wished sii titanium had this. It would make it possible to make things neatly even with rough terrain underneath. Thanks for adding the grid btw. It looks amazing. P.s. in titanium scroll is used for the y grid in case that's why you didn't implement it.
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02.12.20 09:33:15 pm
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Jawohl
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@user ModJuicer: please try not to get so carried away, this isnt a chatroom.

anyway really loving the way the editor looks, and i personally think keeping the inventory and hud the way classic SII was works perfectly fine, it may not be as polished as games like farcry or even stranded deep, but its much clearer and easier to understand how it all works, not to mention looks nicer, in my opinion.

Stranded 2 had a more understandable yet complex and interesting inventory and crafting system than minecraft, and it predated minecraft by several years.

that said, i really enjoy how polished the menus look now, its really just improving on every little detail from the last game, and its really showing a lot of time and love went into it.
08.12.20 03:26:52 am
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ModJuicer
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Quote:
user ModJuicer: please try not to get so carried away, this isnt a chatroom.

Wasn't. I just think the y grid should be an option. In fact, for me it's about as important as the z and x grid put together. Also, now that I mention it snap to grid...

it would be useful to have an offset value for the grid, where you could offset the grid by said amount, which would make the grid much more customizable. That way you would be able to pair structures made in different grid sizes, and also it would make it less restrictive when building.

IMG:https://stuff.unrealsoftware.de/pics/s3dev/ui/editor_grid_pre.jpg


if implemented, the settings for grid would look like:

x: offset: 123 size: 123
y: offset: 123 size: 123
z: offset: 123 size: 123

not that complicated really

also you could add a little box at the bottom:

∗ y axis grid relative to (aligned with) the terrain


p.s. a video example of x,y, and z coordinates grid working in titanium : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCHTDxq2_tM

user DC thanks if you don't get annoyed with me sharing ideas like user Jawohl and even more thanks if you implement them. I can't emphasize enough how much easier this would make mapmaking, especially when using a lot of buildings or using a more modern setting or if you have ocd
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08.12.20 07:21:41 pm
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DC
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@user ModJuicer: Interesting idea. Thanks for sharing!
Having a cool snapping system for multi part objects would be more convenient in my eyes. I would definitely like to have something like that in the editor.
Having more grid options would be easier to implement but also more difficult to use.

I'm also thinking about adding more editor scripts and events. That would allow people to script how placement behaves for specific objects so they could even implement their very own snapping logic.

These are just my thoughts so. Didn't work on that yet.
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08.12.20 10:24:18 pm
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ModJuicer
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yeah. also trees that consist of a trunk, stump, and branches that all seamlessly connect. If one part of the tree moves, the rest of it would move with it, but obviously parts can be chopped off. Using the trunk/branch/stump models you could also make so the tree falls and breaks into pieces. You can then proceed to cut the main trunk (which would be on the ground) into logs for building. and break branches into sticks and leaves, completely doing away with the original stranded II logic which gives items by hitting an object. It would be especially cool to watch a tree fall down and split into multiple parts when it hits the ground.
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09.12.20 01:19:50 am
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Jawohl
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see thing about trees having multiple prefabs that are all interconnected and animated seperatelty is very inefficient on the cpu.

But as for the tree breaking into bits, once the tree runs out of health, the tree object can easily be replaced with a model made up of several shattered prefabs that can be picked up as items, much like how crates worked (and plenty of other items) in Half life 2.

though this was already a thing for multiple items in stranded 2, such as breaking a log will create smaller objects if i recall correctly, but having physics and a generally much better engine performance makes a lot more in the way of possibilities, but im personally perfectly fine with the trees falling over and through the ground and being replaced with a log on the ground.

anyway as for changing the logic for how resources are collected, the problem here is chopping down a tree, and then breaking it down into smaller prefab models and then breaking them into actually pick upable resources is that its very annoying and not very fun to do.
09.12.20 06:00:46 pm
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ModJuicer
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yeah. Not a bad Idea for sure. The tree would stay one model until it is hit. Then it would split into different models so the game would know which part of the tree you're hitting. After a while, the groups could maybe rejoin into one model 3d again automatically to save performance. Once the limbs are broken off, they could be used [E] and they would automatically be broken into different pieces. Also once the tree is felled, the trunk could automatically burst into a bunch of logs, which would look pretty cool.

I never really did like the trees falling through the ground. I guess I got used to it, but others who play the game for the first time would probably be expecting a little more.

If you only have your hands and no tools, it would make sense to be able to break off a limb. Animations (hands) would be a bit trickier, though, because hitting a limb is not really very effective for breaking it.

Quote:
Having more grid options would be easier to implement but also more difficult to use


I don't really see how it could be more difficult to use. It seems like it could only be easier. Although more options would be harder to implement, it seems that you said it backwards?.. (i'm not doing the programming though )

but for sure I can only see it as being easier to use.
scrolling to adjust height, moving the mouse sideways to adjust x and z, although you might want to enable an option to use arrow keys too for when the terrain is too far away to maintain accuracy.



also another big idea: villages and stuff

automatically spawned villages (like in minecraft) would be great, but having even more options would be even better. For example, being able to run for chief (if you have a good enough reputation you could win). Also having villagers require food and water (but also having a farm along with hunter-gatherer villagers)

Also being able to play another role in the village (for example, if you trade enough food, you could get the role of farmer. If you don't trade enough to satisfy the villages food needs, you would lose the role of farmer to another villager.) This sounds (to me) hard to implement, but would make the gameplay very interesting. Also, if you steal stuff from chests from villagers, villagers would know and require you to pay it back before you trade.


another thing to implement would be item groups in inventory

like so:

axe(x8) when double clicked -> iron axe(85% health, 43% sharpened), obsidian axe (32% health, 87% sharpened), obsidian axe (38% health, 52% sharpened), smelted stone axe (47% health, 83% sharpened) ,obsidian axe (34% health, 97% sharpened), obsidian axe (42% health, 89% sharpened), obsidian axe (39% health, 41% sharpened), obsidian axe (35% health, 82% sharpened)

when sharpened, the axe, knife, machete, or whatever else loses health but gains sharpness. When sharper, the blade loses sharpness faster, and when it is less sharp it gets damaged easier


note: smelted stone is kind of like obsidian: note this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMnjbai2-MM
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09.12.20 06:38:54 pm
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DC
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When I said more grid settings would be more difficult to use I was talking about the average, probably less experienced user and I was comparing it with an object based snapping system. A snapping system is the easiest way.. to, well.. snap things together
If you do that with a grid you would have to know and set the right values first. That's not intuitive and an extra step and therefore a subpar solution.

That tree stuff (separate trunk and stump models) would be quite some effort because I would have to make at least 2 extra models for each tree model or I would have to write/use complex mesh slicing routines. Not sure if it's worth that effort. I totally agree that it would look much better though.

Spawning log / branch / leaf items roughly along the correct position of the fallen tree however would be possible without too much extra work. I think that this would already look quite okay with some extra particle effects.
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10.12.20 08:08:55 am
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Jawohl
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i find adding multiple prefabs to one object can become quite a ball ache especially when you need to make multiple varients of this same object.

it would be much quicker and streamlined to just drop the shit when the object breaks, or otherwise give item to player as he damages it (or both as was the case in OG Stranded 2)

i recall 7 Days to Die has the same system for breaking things, and i quite enjoy that game and have come back to it recently.

have you tried it before @user DC: ?
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