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Poll Poll

CS2D In ESL?

Only registered users are allowed to vote
Yes, would be great.
84.40% (92)
No.
10.09% (11)
I'm not sure.
5.50% (6)
109 votes cast

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

DC
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Sorry but welcome to the real world. You can even cheat in Counter-Strike and VAC has pretty complex protections. Do you expect me to be actually better than a whole team of professional full time software developers? And no, we don't close topics unless people start to spam.

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

Jynxxx
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user DC has written
Do you expect me to be actually better than a whole team of professional full time software developers?


Yes, because you are the god in lua

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

DC
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Even if that would be true: Cheat protection systems are surely not scripted in Lua

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

Magik
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user DC has written
Sorry but welcome to the real world. You can even cheat in Counter-Strike and VAC has pretty complex protections. Do you expect me to be actually better than a whole team of professional full time software developers? And no, we don't close topics unless people start to spam.


Im not saying that it should be that way, I am saying that there could be anything, as there isn't any support since last 8 years if we are talking about any ANTY-CHEAT from game founders - so yourself.

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

Hador
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I believe CS2D tournaments do already have anti-cheat systems - programs that run in the background and stop data from being manipulated. As far as I know they work pretty well.

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

CoSmo
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The community itself tried actually to have some decent AC, with Guardian [very good, but the creator TMK has to update it and recently he was inactive and too busy to do it] and CheatGuard [but it's up to date - still though a valuable AC].

I think with a little work on them, the AC issue can be overpassed [if there are still @$%^#$ people that will lose hours and hours to create a hack that can't be seen, what to say].

I gotta agree a bit with user fragezeichen: , there must be an intern change also to afford us to show a good image of competitivity to communities like ESL. There are way too many newbies that lose their time [and possible "careers"] in the game by nolifing in zombie, citylife, deathrun etc. Ofc they want to have their fun, but we must find a way to take more players of that part of CS2D to bigger stages. If i remember right, it wasnt like that in past.


Idk, maybe adding some more infos about competitive side of CS2D in US.de or elsewhere, this maybe will give a motivation to these users to become better and better.


Back to the topic, gotta ask: will any ESL admin reply to that topic ? Or the community users will only do that

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

DC
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user Magik has written
Im not saying that it should be that way, I am saying that there could be anything, as there isn't any support since last 8 years if we are talking about any ANTY-CHEAT from game founders - so yourself.

Are you fucking kidding me?! You are starting to drive me mad with your ignorance! I know better because I'm developing this game and I have to tell you that you are plainly wrong. There were many built-in protections and a huge amount of time and effort has been put into cheat detection and anti cheat protections. What you don't seem to know is the following:
• Every client side protection and detection can be nullified by hackers - and that quite easily in most cases. Doing this often takes even less time than it takes for me to implement the protection (so it's basically just waste of my time)
• It's not possible to do everything on the server because of lag spikes and high pings and bandwidth limits
> The conclusion of this is: An efficient cheat protection and detection only works when it is updated frequently (depending on the frequency in which new cheats/hacks are released) and each update requires adaptions depending on the newest cheat/hack releases. I do NOT have the time to do that. CS2D is just a hobby project and not my full time job. Keep that in mind.

Whatever. Claiming that I did NOTHING about cheats in the last 8 years is just wrong and it really pisses me off. You didn't know that I rewrote the whole fucking game from scratch and that cheats were one of the reasons for that, right? Better inform yourself before talking crap. I'm doing my best but the fight against cheaters and hackers can not be won in long term.

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

Magik
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user DC has written
user Magik has written
Im not saying that it should be that way, I am saying that there could be anything, as there isn't any support since last 8 years if we are talking about any ANTY-CHEAT from game founders - so yourself.

Are you fucking kidding me?! You are starting to drive me mad with your ignorance! I know better because I'm developing this game and I have to tell you that you are plainly wrong. There were many built-in protections and a huge amount of time and effort has been put into cheat detection and anti cheat protections. What you don't seem to know is the following:
• Every client side protection and detection can be nullified by hackers - and that quite easily in most cases. Doing this often takes even less time than it takes for me to implement the protection (so it's basically just waste of my time)
• It's not possible to do everything on the server because of lag spikes and high pings and bandwidth limits
> The conclusion of this is: An efficient cheat protection and detection only works when it is updated frequently (depending on the frequency in which new cheats/hacks are released) and each update requires adaptions depending on the newest cheat/hack releases. I do NOT have the time to do that. CS2D is just a hobby project and not my full time job. Keep that in mind.

Whatever. Claiming that I did NOTHING about cheats in the last 8 years is just wrong and it really pisses me off. You didn't know that I rewrote the whole fucking game from scratch and that cheats were one of the reasons for that, right? Better inform yourself before talking crap. I'm doing my best but the fight against cheaters and hackers can not be won in long term.



maybe you're right, At the moment there is no chance that the game was no security in the league.

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

fragezeichen
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just ignore magik, he has no clue about anti-cheat technology!
and anti-cheating has NEVER been a responsibility of the game creators. look at cs 1.6/source/go, bf (all of them), cod (all of them)... you name it.
there is a reason why there are esl wire, EAC, insight, punkbuster etc etc.
but really, no need to waste energy and time on that...

we don't need new tournaments or ladders. there are enough of them at the moment (see iml 5on5, 1on1 and 3on3 on the way)

and there are links to competitive websites on the cs2d page: http://cs2d.com/links.php (e.g. pcs-project page)

btw. cs2d isn't the only game experiencing these problems. if you do a little bit of research you'll see that other free games such as soldat, enemy territory, urban terror and more have the exact same problems.

i actually think most what is needed to have a big community playing the game is already in place.

another problem i see is that the competitive scene is completely separated from the rest and i think that is a problem particularly in the case of us.de
in this very forum 90% of the active members are not interested in competitive cs2d, not in the same way as users of forums like pcs-project or imleague.
but a new cs2d users will see this forum the first time they play cs2d. so the only way to get 'into' this competitive scene is by joining a competitive clan, and then the clan will tell them to register at the tournament forums and that is most likely how they will see their first tournament forum.
but of course to join such a clan they first have to become medium skilled.

so a user starts cs2d and has no idea about tournaments and clans. only in the servers they will see these people with clantags. they can only join them once there somewhat skilled and only then they will get the chance to join the competitive community.

maybe it would help the situation if they could see the competitive community here already.
not by links to other pages, but with several boards:
- clan/member search
- clan forum (for introduction and talking aobut clans)
- tournament forum (where tournaments get announced on this official forum
so that new users have the competitive scene right at the official forum and don't have to go to external pages to find information there. (i mean if you go to pcs-project or also imleague you won't even see anything if you don't have an account... really great situation...)

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

Magik
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user fragezeichen has written
just ignore magik, he has no clue about anti-cheat technology!


I know a little bit, I tested a few of them, that were used in CS2D or that are used now and none of them gave us sufficient protection to play with this in ESL.

Of course im cheers this project, but u must have sufficient anty-cheat, because ESL is not a league on forum (hey PCS, hey IML, hey ICC respect for you but ESL is a few levels above).

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

FlooD
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i am not familiar with esl, but i want to say a things

anticheat:
it is unreasonable to ask DC to work on some anticheat system. he has already put a reasonable amount of passive protection features in cs2d and imo that is as much as a game developer should do. to have DC work on some robust anticheat system is not a good idea since other people can do it as well and having DC do so would take up time that could be spent making the game better.

currently there are 3 AC systems
Spoiler >



the other issue is the decreasing amount of competitive players in the game. most of the competitive north american players have stopped playing, and north american servers are generally filled with players from various other parts of the world. currently the most active two communities (european and brazilian) are both smaller than they were before.


what DC can do to help the competitive side of cs2d:
1. get more new players aware that a competitive side actually exists. maybe news posts on here about competitive cs2d. maybe a frequently updated database of (active) clans
2. improve some parts of the game such as lag compensation, bullet loss, input lag, less jerky "follow player" in spectator, instant replay of your death, seeing the pointer of the spectated player (possible with lua but reqcld every frame causes lag), lag compensated spectating when in "follow player",

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

Majatek
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It is unreasonable to ask that when he's already worked his best on anti-cheat solutions?

I fucking facepalmed so hard my hand is red raw.

Seriously can't any of you read what DC has posted already? Client side protection can be hacked easily. Although the efforts he's put into making sure that you cannot hack the client, it is still a tall order to make his game unhackable.

Go and find a multiplayer shooter that has no hacks before you tell DC that his efforts are not good enough. Preventing people from hacking is not as simple as you lot think.

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

Apache uwu
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The best method is to tell players that wish to participate in a competition that they must record their screen [externally/internally].

Not to diverge, but I think it's pretty easy to spot a cheater in most cases. Their aiming is awesome but their strafing is choppy and uncoordinated? Most professionals have their aiming and moving down completely.

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

Magik
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FlooD, despite the fact that they are 3, none of them does not work good ?

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

palomino
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user Magik has written
okey, moderator you can close the topic.

First of all, not for you to decide that. You didn't create the thread.
Second, you ignorant fuck, DC is actually spending his time to make this game FREE, while he has other projects, a university and a personal life. Are you suggesting him to forget about all that and work on CS2D only? I hate "competitive" players like you, you guys think about yourselves and no one else and think that you are the best if you are good at a 2d game. Guess what? You aren't. You aren't MAKING games people actually enjoy.

Abandon other projects? So what about the people who play Stranded I and II, Carnage Contest and Minigolf Madness? DC should just forget about us and SERVE fucks like YOU?

Have at least some respect for the other people here.

Oh, and you know a little bit about anti-cheat technology? You tested them?! Wow! You are so clever! Maybe you could help DC with making a good anti-cheat? He would surely like to get help from you!

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

zeeenk
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No1 will close this Topic untill me or DC want to.

We (better me) will leave this topic open to get more Ideas for getting back to ESL.

Thanks.

+++ Don't rage here +++

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

CylonKc
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1st. actually even when CS2D would get accepted in the european or german section it will be closed after a couple of weeks because lack of activity ( just check other 1v1 tournaments like IMLeague or PCL, most of them failed because the anti cheats are all easy to bypass )

2nd. like DC already said, how should he code a Anti Cheat which doesnt allow hackers to bypass it ( in my opinion compleatly impossible even if he would be the best coder in the world ). When even each new VAC update can be bypassed in under 2 hours

3rd. im done.

old Re: CS2D in ESL?

Blunt
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@user zeeenk:
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No1 will close this Topic untill me or DC want to.

Good joke, DC or the Mods do not close the thread if you say:close this thread, they will give a fuck, if you say that. Unrealsoftware do not close threads for no reason, the threads get closed if: flame, to much off topic, or over reasons. u know?
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