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old can silencing extremism create extremism?

ModJuicer
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I have long pondered this question, and I have long wondered about its implications. Especially recently on thread offtopic why focusing on christians & muslims but not jews? I considered a question I had asked myself. What if I had just decided to save my own personal time and told the person that they were simply wrong without spending the effort to explain things to them? What happens when we, collectively and as a society, completely silence views we deem as extreme. After all, for centuries people have found ways to justify things like killing or terrorism. What happens when these people are cut off from the rest of us, due to fear of retribution.

I know this forum is not a place that is likely for extreme views to be completely silenced, due to the fact that the thread I mentioned above has not been trashed or closed, but what about other parts of the internet?

I am not going to explicitly state that some people should not be denied a platform, as some should. I am talking about everyday people that don't have much of a platform anyway, and have their own life and background that shaped the person they are, whether or not that is a very likable or politically acceptable person.

I see the paradox of tolerance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance) being turned on its head. Those who don't tolerate the intolerant have become so intolerant themselves that they block the ability of those that are tolerant of being able to tolerate or associate with people that have views outside of what is politically acceptable. That, in my view, is intolerable.

Not to say we should embrace extremism, as we should not. Nor should we approve of it. What is important is that we can maintain contact and reach a mutual understanding. I think political polarization may very well be caused by our current inability or unwillingness to listen to other perspectives. The truth is, dehumanizing those with extreme viewpoints only serves to make them bitter, which can have consequences.

People learn from example. Punishment or any strategy that makes someone feel unhappy or socially rejected only makes that person desire to find ways to make the punishment backfire. This is an innate human characteristic, and it provides an important function. Mainly it prevents others from exploiting or unjustly treating oneself, and without it we would live in an excessively coercive society, as nobody would wish to make the tactics of a tyrant backfire.

Thus, we have an innate instinct to find satisfaction in weakening any political structure or order that we perceive as unfair to us. That is why I had such a poor attitude towards school at a young age, even when it was in my best interest not to. It is important to be able to listen to voices of resentment, or they will try to overthrow everything you believe in.

Hope to see some interesting replies to my view of extremism.

old Re: can silencing extremism create extremism?

khaled1968
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Firstly, I stopped responding to your messages in that thread due to two main reasons. First, English is not my first language, which is making communication difficult. Second, I didn't find any good responses in your messages and felt like you are talking without any proofs.

Secondly, Silencing extremism is the right choice, but before that you have to hear from these "extremists" so that you know if they are right or if their image has been distorted, because the real extremist might be you, not them.

Lastly and thirdly, Jews have a general control over Europe, so it's natural that they will have a say in all the decisions made. Anyone who says this statement is a result conspiracy theories is a naive person.

Atheism was made by Jews, feminism was made by Jews, and famous theories such as gravity, evolution, spherical earth, and the heliocentric model, and many many more, were also made by the Jews. This may sound crazy, but if you do your research honestly, everything will become clear to you.

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that the Jews did not make all this, their allowing of such ideas to spread under their rule is evidence of their complicity and their deep desire for those ideas to spread.

Either way, Jews are the main cause of what's happening today. And today also, you can belittle and curse anything. You can curse Islam and no one will confront you, you can curse Christianity and no one will confront you, but you cannot curse the Jews religion and the ideas that resulted from it, such as atheism.

Don't believe me? Give it a try, and I'll come visit you in jail to give you a salute, while you are facing a case of "anti-Semitism" and "spreading false information".

old Re: can silencing extremism create extremism?

ModJuicer
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Not you again. Of boy. Do we really need to have this conversation again?

Anti-Semitism is barred in many places because some people keep killing Jews. Killing anyone is Illegal (murder) and it makes sense that people would want to prevent all deaths, including that of Jews, Muslims, or any other type of person for that matter. You would support a law against Anti-Muslim persecution, wouldn't you? Now imagine if you were a Jew, belonging to the most violently targeted religious group. It simply makes logical sense that Anti-Semitism is illegal, because it leads to violent deaths for Jewish people.

crazy person has written
This may sound crazy

I agree. It does.

I think I overestimated your intelligence previously, which I regret, as you appear to (still) believe, based on your statement, that the earth is flat (or at least not spherical), that gravity does not exist, and that the earth does not revolve around the sun.

You also appear to have a distaste for women's rights, something most women would not agree with.

However, I will still try maintain my patience, partially because of what I said previously, and what this thread is about. In that spirit, I have a few questions to ask.

What events in your life caused you to dislike Jews? Was it something Jewish people did to you specifically?

If you are saying Jews are part of a conspiracy to control the world (I.E. conspiracy theory) then in that case, even if it was true (it isn't, as significant evidence shows) you would not be able to change anything, so why would you spend your time fixated on something so pointless when you have better things to do, like actually accomplishing things in life?

Things prove themselves in time. I was into perpetual motion machines for a while until I eventually had to face reality and observe that they did not, and could not, work. I had been lied to online and naively believed the lies, until I learned they were just that. Lies. I assume you will eventually pass through that learning phase and, just as I have, learn the truth in the end. It was a phase that gave me the ability to look back and understand where I went wrong, how I mislead myself, and how conspiracy theories can deeply effect people far more than one can be aware of until after they stop believing them. For that reason, I have deep empathy for anyone taken in by conspiracy theories. It happens to intelligent people all the time. What truly creates wisdom is making your own mistakes and then, when they inevitably get proven false, being able to accept your previous inability to accept reality. It makes one aware of the weaknesses in their own mind, and in doing so brings strength and versatility.


That all being said, I would rather not continue this conversation in this thread. Please reply in thread offtopic why focusing on christians & muslims but not jews? I would like to keep the rest of the dialogue in the current thread on-topic, as I view the main subject of this thread as far more important that which religious group people are blaming for all our problems. Thank you.

old Re: can silencing extremism create extremism?

khaled1968
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@user ModJuicer: I'm not interested in continuing this conversation with you, so we don't have to keep talk about this. What I want from you now is to stop calling me an extremist, especially when you have no proofs for that.

As I said, what I'm telling you is not a conspiracy theory. There's proof for everything, you just need to request it. If someone has lied to you and you can't accept the truth now, that's your problem. But don't come and accuse those who won't accept the shit you accepted as extremists or racist.

old Re: can silencing extremism create extremism?

ModJuicer
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What methods do you use to distinguish lies from truth? Do you use philosophical razors? Do you observe your own cognitive biases? After all, what distinguishes proof from falsehoods intended to mislead?

user khaled1968 has written
what I'm telling you is not a conspiracy theory


Well, I ran it through the duck test. If it looks like a conspiracy theory, sounds like a conspiracy theory, and functions as a conspiracy theory, it's probably a conspiracy theory.

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Occam's razor: Simpler explanations are more likely to be correct; avoid unnecessary or improbable assumptions.

Keep things simple. The more you add to your theory, the more likely you are to be false. Instead of thinking of some grand theory about Jews running the entire world, controlling your thoughts, and sodomizing children, find something more simple. Like maybe what you see is what there is, what you don't see you do not know and cannot prove, and what you cannot prove you cannot introduce as evidence. The reason science works is because you can prove scientific observations and theories true or false yourself by testing them yourself. Your theories cannot be physically or directly tested, and are thus unverifiable. Online proof is only actually proof if it has been tested by scientists and professionals. Otherwise, anyone can upload their own 'proof' and say whatever they want, no matter what is true or false. People are not born with built-in fact checkers. Without evidence or experience, truth looks exactly the same as lies.

Note that it is hard to get pure truth all the time, even if you use the best sources, because people aren't perfect. Even geniuses make mistakes. Science prevents that by setting standards in order to catch the mistakes.

Also, part of the reason I have not asked for your evidence is because of brandolini's law. If you read into it you will understand why I am hesitant to spend my time on such unrewarding tasks.

Anyway, all else aside, I still see you as a person like everyone else. We have all been mislead at some point in our lives. I remember wondering myself, back in my perpetual motion machine days, why my cousins never listened to my reasoning behind it, and were finding evidence that exclusively contradicted it. Nowadays, I would have little patience myself for such a conversation, but at the time I felt they were just not open enough to possibilities. Turns out, though, that my cousins knew quite a bit more than I did, and I was only just beginning to realize it.

You will meet a lot of people online who know quite a bit more than you do. If they disagree with you, that does not mean they think you are a bad person, or that they themselves have ill intentions. It doesn't even mean they aren't open to agreeing with you on some things. It simply means they have the skill to find logical flaws in your arguments, and that they are willing to use those skills to help you understand the world around you the way it is, to help guide you on the journey of your life.

The fact that I haven't given up yet in talking you out of your theories isn't evidence of ill intent, but evidence that, even when brandolini's law means all the odds are against me, I still have the empathy to continue my efforts to help. Do not underestimate the power of confidence in its ability to mislead oneself.

One's entire view of the world should not be completely based on one assumption, like 'the earth is flat' or 'Jews run the world'. One should observe the topics one assumes they know well more thoroughly, as I have myself, to avoid becoming a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

I will not say you are wrong or right about what you believe. I think that it is your job to double check that there is actually proof, and to take both sides of your own argument, as I myself often do, to make sure there isn't conflicting information.

Have a good day.
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