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old Programming Languages

kamac
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I've made this thread to seriously talk about programming languages and what do you use. If you reply, make sure you know something in this area, or want to ask a question.


-Best BASIC compilers?-

I am sure BlitzBASIC is nice, but which their tool would you recommend the most?

What about DarkBASIC Professional? Is it way worse than Blitz? I've been using it for few years and it is quite good, but i didn't use Blitz at all, maybe because it is commercial.


-Isn't C/C++ better?-

It is probably better, but not for small projects. So what i think is, that when you are a lone developer, why not to use BASIC languages? It will save your development time, because big studios are using C++, which is a bit time consuming, but they have lots of programmers and Indies doesn't.


-What about other BASIC languages?-

Do you know any other, probably better BASIC compilers, or are DBPro and Blitz the leaders?


-Other languages-

I saw LUA is quite great, but with LOVE engine.

Any other opportunities?

old Re: Programming Languages

DannyDeth
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I always use C or C++ when I code, they are the languages I learnt to program in, and I love them like I would love my own children.

old Re: Programming Languages

Banaan
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I think it's impossible to call one language the best. Each situation, each set of requirements needs another language. BASIC might save time (I don't know anything about that though) but I'm sure it has a lot less possibilities than C. Lua might be extremely easy, but again there isn't much you can do with it and it must have some overhead because it's run through an interpreter.

old Re: Programming Languages

DannyDeth
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@Banaan:
Lua is a lot more powerful than some people think, I recently used it to write a mock-up database while I was testing some software and it didn't cause lag(s) whatsoever.

old Re: Programming Languages

kamac
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but again there isn't much you can do with it and it must have some overhead because it's run through an interpreter.


Ow. Didn't know that. I'll remember to stick away from it, even BASIC languages are ran throught compiler.


I don't understand all that C/C++ awesomness, i mean, i know how to use them (with Allegro, but no 3d :|), but i think using BASIC's spares lots of your free time.

They might have alot less functionality, but you usually don't need these while making an idie game.

About speed, i would say that BASIC languages aren't so much slower than C++.

old Re: Programming Languages

Banaan
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A compiler is something else than an interpreter.

C/C++ and BASIC are compiled, which means that code understandable for a computer is generated first, before you can run the application. Lua, PHP and Python are run through an interpreter, which translates the code to something readable by a computer during runtime.

So BASIC should be about as fast as C/C++ and faster than Lua.

old Re: Programming Languages

kamac
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So BASIC should be about as fast as C/C++ and faster than Lua.


This have made my day

Too bad big companies don't use BASIC's, it would be easier to get a job

old Re: Programming Languages

DannyDeth
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@Banaan:
BASIC's machine code is usually poorly put together, AFAICR. C is much lower-level, so also is faster to compile too.

old Re: Programming Languages

Westbeam
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FreeBasic - easy to learn, easy to use and its free
Assembler(NASM) - hard to learn, hard to use. But you can do everything with it. Its free too

old Re: Programming Languages

kamac
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Assembler(NASM) - hard to learn, hard to use. But you can do everything with it. Its free too


Make a 2d game with it

Hell of work.

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FreeBasic - easy to learn, easy to use and its free


Is it better than Blitz & DBPro?

old Re: Programming Languages

kevin00756
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c# is great to create small programs.With Xna for c#
you can make games for pc and xbox 360.You can convert your xbox 360 self-created games in your pc.
I think is easy to learn and it's fun

old Re: Programming Languages

Westbeam
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kamac has written
Is it better than Blitz

FreeBasic is free. Its faster than BlitzBasic and u can use it on Linux AND Windows.

old Re: Programming Languages

Lys
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I know BlitzMax(/Basic), PHP, C# and C++. I use all of them, while every single one of this has it's own range in which I would consider using that language.
For games or smaller applications, that won't require a big GUI, I will use BlitzMax (back in time, BlitzBasic). For my homepage stuff I obviously use PHP. For applications, that I make for others and that will include a GUI & stuff, I am using C#. For the use of C++, for me it is mainly coming down as an auxiliary language for BlitzMax mostly (importing C++ parts as WinApi commands in Blitz), or sometimes also for smaller apps. But that rarely happens.

old Re: Programming Languages

kamac
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c# is great to create small programs.With Xna for c#
you can make games for pc and xbox 360.You can convert your xbox 360 self-created games in your pc.
I think is easy to learn and it's fun


I don't have X360, i have PS3

I know it is easy, i know it's basics. I would use it for WinAPI probably, ratcher than for games

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FreeBasic is free. Its faster than BlitzBasic and u can use it on Linux AND Windows.


And how do you know it's faster ?

But it's promising!

old Re: Programming Languages

Westbeam
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kamac has written
And how do you know it's faster ?

You can test the execution speed of commands. FreeBasic commands are faster than BlitzBasic commands.

old Re: Programming Languages

Lee
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This thread seems to be biased against non-basic languages for no particular reason. I have to say that from a pragmatic point of view, all languages have equivalent computing powers as they must all be normalized to machine code somewhere along the execution flow, so there's really no way to assert that one language is better or more powerful than another. And as far as the term language is concerned, this only points to the set of productions rules defined by the grammar of the language. As such, saying that BASIC is better than C because it's simpler is like saying 3 is better than 2 because it's 1 larger. C and BASIC are both standards that are independent from the implementation.

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So BASIC should be about as fast as C/C++ and faster than Lua.


This is true, and for the most part, the speed differences between modern implementations of basic and c are virtually insignificant. (vb.net runs on the CLR virtual machine so it doesn't count, for the most part, blitz targets a set of C wrappers over the graphics calls so it is actually a bit slower than C/C++ equivalents, however not by much; but vanilla BASIC used in academic environments have comparable speeds to their C counter-part, as the machine code produced will nearly be identical as long as memory management isn't considered)

However, C is designed with the computer system architecture in mind whereas Basic comes from a more academic environment. Neither allows arbitrary execution of machine code, but C hugs the system layer more closely than Basic. As such, at an industrial level, C normally seems like a better target language than Basic.

Lua was designed as a configuration language that has recently been retrofitted as an embedded scripting engine in many (many!) computer games. As such, its high level abstractions are far superior to those of C and Basic, at the superficial cost of runtime that is insignificant to the actual platform embedding lua.
edited 1×, last 09.09.11 09:09:41 pm

old Re: Programming Languages

kamac
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Aha, okay.

I just took a look at the code, it is very close to what am i using to develop on Android devices, but it isn't too logic sometimes :P.

old Re: Programming Languages

ohaz
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I use Pascal (but an object orientated version of it, I use Lazarus and Delphi) to quickly make applications or small games. I programmed a bit in Blitz3D too, but it didn't satisfy me that much. In addition I learn java at university and some c# at home.
Yeah, and then there are the scripting languages. I know php fluently, lua, python, ruby and many others partially.

old Re: Programming Languages

kamac
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If i would have to say which languages do i know these would be:

C++ (2d), C (for PSP), Java (applets, not too much and Android), BASICs (My main target for now), PHP&MySQL&HTML&CSS (some more, some less)
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