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Englisch LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

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alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

oxytamine
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user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
@user Cirium:
My idea, not SD's. I actually implemented it a while ago, but the server that had the source code on it is no longer in existence due to contract expiration.

Since when you are inventor of the idea of logging packets? Bullshit.
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
@user Apache uwu:
The people crashing servers usually use the packet used to get the server data as this is one of the most expensive operations. Therefore looking for packets with multiple repetitions of that packet will allow you to mark certain IP's as "dangerous" and "ban" their packets in a way.

It's a very simple idea, guys, why not have a hack at it?

That's right, that's what I'm talking about.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

DannyDeth
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user oxytamine hat geschrieben
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
@user Cirium:
My idea, not SD's. I actually implemented it a while ago, but the server that had the source code on it is no longer in existence due to contract expiration.

Since when you are inventor of the idea of logging packets? Bullshit.

If you read my post and lose your idiotic arrogance, logging and ACTIVELY REMOVING packets was my idea, which SD did not mention.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

oxytamine
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I didn't really read his post, but logging packets implies removing them (actively) otherwise it makes no sense.
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
This is useless and not obvious-becuase-it-is-bullshit nonsense. If you had 300 zombie hosts at your disposal, a crash would be easy. Hell, with 6 zombie hosts and a few proxy servers could crash a CS2D server. A SINGLE HOST AND A PROXY COULD CRASH A SERVER. Speed does not matter as the proxies will generally be fast enough to send out 30 fucking UDP packets in a matter of milliseconds.

Right now you're extremely wrong, my friend, what you tell is pure bullshit. Single host/proxy would not crash a server, unless you haven't got IT knowledge at all/your server is shit. You cannot crash a CS2D server by DDoSing UDP packets, you need more than 6 zombie hosts to do that. Twelve would do a thing. Speed does not matter, but location does.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

DannyDeth
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user oxytamine hat geschrieben
I didn't really read his post, but logging packets implies removing them (actively) otherwise it makes no sense.

No, you are wrong. Logging = reading and saving the data from the packets.
user oxytamine hat geschrieben
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
This is useless and not obvious-becuase-it-is-bullshit nonsense. If you had 300 zombie hosts at your disposal, a crash would be easy. Hell, with 6 zombie hosts and a few proxy servers could crash a CS2D server. A SINGLE HOST AND A PROXY COULD CRASH A SERVER. Speed does not matter as the proxies will generally be fast enough to send out 30 fucking UDP packets in a matter of milliseconds.

Right now you're extremely wrong, my friend, what you tell is pure bullshit. Single host/proxy would not crash a server, unless you haven't got IT knowledge at all/your server is shit. You cannot crash a CS2D server by DDoSing UDP packets, you need more than 6 zombie hosts to do that. Twelve would do a thing. Speed does not matter, but location does.

You do not know what you are talking about. Every time my server was crashed, it was through the use of a repetition of a packet filled with multiple entries of the "fetch server data" instruction. there were about 30 of them each time before the CS2D server crashed. This amounted to a 'whopping' 60.something kilobytes of data, even slow DSL lines and proxies can send that in a few milliseconds. It's not the speed that matters. You are obviously someone who knows shit all and bases their comments on assumptions and poor evaluations of events.

EDIT: And location doesn't matter either, a single host doesn't even need a proxy to crash a server unless they want to hide their identity, in which case they wouldn't need a proxy either because you can simply change the IP address as the packet leaves your PC.
1× editiert, zuletzt 21.06.12 14:32:33

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

DC
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You can probably even crash a CS2D server with a single (slow) connection and one single IP and without using any proxies. I'm pretty sure that there are still multiple ways to do that.

Packets with a heavy payload as response like the player list or the server info packet are well guarded already as long as they are requested from the same source. CS2D ceases to respond quite fast for these particular messages to keep the damage at a minimum.

Blocking this for simultaneous attacks from different source IPs is a much harder task though because it's not trivial to tell attackers and regular users apart in that scenario. There is currently no protection implemented against that but I'm obviously forced to change that and I bet that it will lead to a lot of annoying problems.
1× editiert, zuletzt 21.06.12 14:33:32

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

oxytamine
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user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
No, you are wrong. Logging = reading and saving the data from the packets.

Logging packets without later analyzing them and therefore actively removing fraud packets makes no sense.
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
You do not know what you are talking about. Every time my server was crashed, it was through the use of a repetition of a packet filled with multiple entries of the "fetch server data" instruction. there were about 30 of them each time before the CS2D server crashed. This amounted to a 'whopping' 60.something kilobytes of data, even slow DSL lines and proxies can send that in a few milliseconds. It's not the speed that matters. You are obviously someone who knows shit all and bases their comments on assumptions and poor evaluations of events.

Packet flood has nothing to do with DDoS attacks in this case - it's CS2D's vulnerability.
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
EDIT: And location doesn't matter either, a single host doesn't even need a proxy to crash a server unless they want to hide their identity, in which case they wouldn't need a proxy either because you can simply change the IP address as the packet leaves your PC.

Location does matter when it comes to flooding UDP packets.
user DC hat geschrieben
You can probably even crash a CS2D server with a single (slow) connection and one single IP and without using any proxies. I'm pretty sure that there are still multiple ways to do that.

You are right, but this has nothing to do with DDoS attacks - it's counted as exploiting CS2D packet structure.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

DannyDeth
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user oxytamine hat geschrieben
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
No, you are wrong. Logging = reading and saving the data from the packets.

Logging packets without later analyzing them and therefore actively removing fraud packets makes no sense.

Doesn't change the fact that logging is logging, not removing. Come back to me once you've gained the correct use of your vocabulary.
user oxytamine hat geschrieben
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
You do not know what you are talking about. Every time my server was crashed, it was through the use of a repetition of a packet filled with multiple entries of the "fetch server data" instruction. there were about 30 of them each time before the CS2D server crashed. This amounted to a 'whopping' 60.something kilobytes of data, even slow DSL lines and proxies can send that in a few milliseconds. It's not the speed that matters. You are obviously someone who knows shit all and bases their comments on assumptions and poor evaluations of events.

Packet flood has nothing to do with DDoS attacks in this case - it's CS2D's vulnerability.
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
EDIT: And location doesn't matter either, a single host doesn't even need a proxy to crash a server unless they want to hide their identity, in which case they wouldn't need a proxy either because you can simply change the IP address as the packet leaves your PC.

Location does matter when it comes to flooding UDP packets.

Show some proof. I attempted to crash my server, which was in Germany, from where I am, South African, and I got it down relatively quickly using spoofed packets, there's my proof as to your ignorance. Location doesn't matter whatsoever. Here ends my arguments, it's obvious you are just defending a sorry, pathetic arse with your posts.

EDIT: @user oxytamine: We are not talking about any kind of DoS attack, servers are crashed using the packet structure/multiple IP relationship and that is what I have been talking about all along. And location doesn't matter in DoS attacks either.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

oxytamine
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user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
Doesn't change the fact that logging is logging, not removing. Come back to me once you've gained the correct use of your vocabulary.

Come back when you learn to read since all I said was "logging packets without later actively removing fraud ones makes no sense" which is still true.
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
Show some proof. I attempted to crash my server, which was in Germany, from where I am, South African, and I got it down relatively quickly using spoofed packets, there's my proof as to your ignorance. Location doesn't matter whatsoever. Here ends my arguments, it's obvious you are just defending a sorry, pathetic arse with your posts.

So how did you crash a server, eh? Tell me more, I want to know.
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
And location doesn't matter in DoS attacks either.

You must be completely ignorant if you repeat obvious statements all over again. Edit post when you have something to say, not just to make your post look bigger.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

DannyDeth
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@user oxytamine:
You said that logging is removing fraud packets, you were wrong, admit it. You are a silly little child if you cannot even admit when you are wrong.

I concat'd several strings of the data used in the handshaking process and sent several of these packets to the server. They were similar to the ones that I had recieved originally. I learnt the packet contents and their uses from a post on Uprate6's blog.

You were talking about DDoS attacks, which you are really not qualified to talk about considering you are a 15-year old kid sitting in front of his PC for hours trying to look smart, so I answered your misguided defensive jabbering.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

oxytamine
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user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
@user oxytamine:
You said that logging is removing fraud packets,

No. I said that logging implies actively removing fraud packets.

user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
I concat'd several strings of the data used in the handshaking process and sent several of these packets to the server. They were similar to the ones that I had recieved originally. I learnt the packet contents and their uses from a post on Uprate6's blog.

This method does not work anymore - maybe that's because you refused to crash my server?

user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
You were talking about DDoS attacks, which you are really not qualified to talk about considering you are a 15-year old kid sitting in front of his PC for hours trying to look smart, so I answered your misguided defensive jabbering.

No, I'm a bit older. Anyway, I was not talking about DDoS attacks, but packet flooding.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

DannyDeth
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user oxytamine hat geschrieben
user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
@user oxytamine:
You said that logging is removing fraud packets,

No. I said that logging implies actively removing fraud packets.

Well it doesn't, so you are wrong.

user oxytamine hat geschrieben
No, I'm a bit older. Anyway, I was not talking about DDoS attacks, but packet flooding.

You have been "implying" that this is what you have been talking about, look at your posts, all of them mention DDoS.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

DC
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Do you question the rules? Don't do that
A forum is for discussions but they were just repeating what they already said. So it was just pointless repetition with chat character. See posts like
Zitat
Well it doesn't, so you are wrong.
and
Zitat
It does.
for example. Anything proven here? Any point? Nope. Basically pointless spam and repetition? Yes. Clearly no real discussion just a childish fight between two individuals. That's not what we want to see here.

Back to topic please.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

Cirium
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user DannyDeth hat geschrieben
This is useless and not obvious-becuase-it-is-bullshit nonsense. If you had 300 zombie hosts at your disposal, a crash would be easy. Hell, with 6 zombie hosts and a few proxy servers could crash a CS2D server. A SINGLE HOST AND A PROXY COULD CRASH A SERVER. Speed does not matter as the proxies will generally be fast enough to send out 30 fucking UDP packets in a matter of milliseconds.


Exactly. That's why firewalls are useful.

IPTables can also be configured to only allow a certain number of connections and once the limit is reached, deny anyone else from connecting for 1-2 minutes, then re-open the connection.
(EI: Someone attempts to crash the server w/ 100bots, your limit is set to 10 connections, after 10 bots connect the rest are denied.)

Its basically DDoS prevention through IPTables

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

Apache uwu
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Actually, if you block any further connections such as a 503-->that's the meaning of ddos, and the attacker just won.

That means if a real player actually wanted to join they can't because you just blocked any more connections.

alt Re: LoL Gamer crashing NoPain server (Proof)

Cirium
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Well, yes.

However you would set the IPTables limit to higher than you would expect there to be players or connections on the server. Or, configure a burstable limit for the IPTable rule aswell.
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