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old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

Pehlivan
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I agree with @user SpriNG: . Many people confuse Islam with ISIS or with other terrorist groups. As an example, ISIS isn't connected in any way with the Islam because it's forbidden to kill innocent people(obviously).

Also, if many people hear "terrorist", they're thinking of a middle east person. As @user SpriNG: mentioned, there're much more "hidden" terrorist all over the world, like the US.

P.S: IMG:https://fs5.directupload.net/images/151114/temp/76w8yaii.png

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

StirlizZ-Fapicon
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user oxytamine has written
Good lesson! More people should have died though, 200 isn't much. Maybe then Europe will understand that muslim immigrants isn't good thing. Although they have already tried to sell them.


Hmmm... looks like you`re right. Truth is painful but I`m mostly agree with your position.

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

Leiche
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user Pehlivan has written
I agree with @user SpriNG: . Many people confuse Islam with ISIS or with other terrorist groups. As an example, ISIS isn't connected in any way with the Islam because it's forbidden to kill innocent people(obviously).


Let me just leave three counter-arguments to your post:

[Quran 8:12]:
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

*cough* Nothing to add here.

[Quran 9:05]:
"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

While this can be seen as a product of it's time, (many arabic tribes still believed in polytheism [multiple gods like in asatru]) it's still a call for the slaughter of disbelievers.

[Quran 9:29]:
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - fight until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."

So Muslims are supposed to fight and/or kill the disbelievers of Islam until they either adopt Islam, or pay a "subhuman tax".

[Quran 9:30]:
"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

And here the Magical book of old desert fairy tales is calling for the destruction of every other religion (another call for jihad).
Also the Quran says that they are imitating Islam which is a flat out lie, since Chalcedonism (early Christianity) and Judaism existed LONG before (~400 to 500 Years) the Islam itself.


tl;dr: Saying ISIS has no connection to islam is bullshit, since they're actually following the Quran quite closely.


PS: Goddammit user Gaios

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

DannyDeth
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There are also lots of calls to the death of others in pretty much every other religion. ISIS does not represent all muslims, full stop. Whatever the hell the Quran says does not matter. Every muslim will interpret the holy book differently, and very few will honestly believe that the actions taken by terrorists are just or moral.

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

hodja
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@user Leiche: You're talking like we're killing people everyday. That quotes you gave is about war times and what Allah
will do to them. (my whole family is muslim. but this doesn't means that we are terrorists.)

By the way, ISIS kills muslims too. ISIS is not muslims.

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

Raisun
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I appreciate your effort and thank you, user Gaios and yes, (this is to everyone), it's horrible what happened.

More >


But I won't pray for Paris, nor change my avatar. Because this "trend" will last for a week, two at most. It's hypocrisy, in my honest opinion. It won't bring lives of the dead back, nor help anyone. Showing support is nice, but facebook avatars mean jackshit.

Don't blame me now, but I think that Europe has to learn a lesson. Yes, it's modern that we all unite and are friendly and everything, but it doesn't work that way. Actually, Europe doesn't need immigrants, as politicians say (claiming they will be good labour workers). Also, they have different ideology, and they are not going to adapt. Period.

Here, in Czech Republic, we've got refugee camp near Bezdez castle. It's horrible place, I've been there for a few times. While media claims we are helping children and women, this particular camp is filled with young men. And maybe few women and children. I haven't seen any. The point is, any of them could do the same thing like in Paris. Also, keep in mind that ISIS says they have their operatives hidden in immigrant waves.

Same in Germany.

And tell me, where were your prayers, when there were rebellions in Ukraine (I lost few good friends and family relatives there), bombardments in Syria, Lybia, or anywhere else? People die everyday, not only in Paris.

It's almost as 9/11, but with a slight difference. USA woke up. Europe needs to learn.

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

Leiche
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user hodja has written
@user Leiche: You're talking like we're killing people everyday. That quotes you gave is about war times and what Allah
will do to them. (my whole family is muslim. but this doesn't means that we are terrorists.)

By the way, ISIS kills muslims too. ISIS is not muslims.


Those psalms taken from the quran are not only what "Allah" will do to them, most of them also have obvious straightforward commands for followers of the islamic belief.


[Second part of 8:12]
[First sentence of 9:05]
[Last sentence of 9:29]
[Only 9:30 is absent of any commands for followers.]


I've never said that every single muslim is a murderer, which user hodja ignorantly implies.
I just show the discrepancies in user Pehlivan's post, ISIS's members follow the Quran and believe in Allah, therefore ISIS's members are also muslims.

user Black Wolf has written
I would explain that to leiche but i dont have time to explain that for 999 time.

Go ahead and prove me wrong, I have the source right here.

Best regards,
Leiche

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

BcY
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This topic is full of sick messages as many other religious political topics.Better to think neutral but it's not looking possible with that monomania that you guys have.

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

Leiche
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user hodja has written
@user Leiche:

CV has written
ISIS kills muslims too. ISIS is not muslims.


Islam forbidden killing innocent and muslims.

ISIS is not muslims.


You're repeating yourself now, If someone follows the ideology of a religion they are a believer of this religion.
If its right or not what they're doing was not part of our discussion.
Just because they're killing other muslims which oppose their idea of a caliphate doesn't make them them less muslim.
Imagine Catholic priests molesting little christian children, they still are Catholic priests, even though they molested little christian children.

The simplest example for ISIS members believing in islam is them shouting "Allahu akbar" constantly.

So stop repeating yourself and give me a coherent reason why they're not muslim.

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

SpriNG
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Well, let's just say the ISIS really are muslim and that they are following what their religion tells them to do. But, how many people are killed everyday where muslims are being punished for something they never did. Millions and millions of muslims are killed just because of some 'islamic' extremists who sucide and kill people while shouting 'Allahu Akbar'... where is the support for the muslims that die. Only a few hundred were killed in the europe and the whole world is crying. Millions are killed everyday and no one gives a shit. Why? Because they are muslims. Also, the quran does NOT
Tell us to kill innocents/non-believers. You should rather read the whole ACTUAL Quran than just picking out some verses. I can't waste any more time arguing with ignorants.

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

Black Wolf
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Leiche, these books are made back then, it was times when these disbelievers tried to destroy Islam no matter what. Its known that Propthet Muhammad teached to respect others and their religions if they have done nothing wrong.

So these verses what you pointed out was ''created'' in these times when they were under attack in mecca. They were meant to these people who tried to kill Muslims. You need to research little bit since i cant explain good enough.

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

c0iL
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My condolences for the people who suffered during the attacks. I hope that the Mods/Admins close this topic soon before it turns into a religious flamewar.

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

Leiche
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user SpriNG has written
Also, the quran does NOT
Tell us to kill innocents/non-believers. You should rather read the whole ACTUAL Quran than just picking out some verses. I can't waste any more time arguing with ignorants.


*sigh*
So tell me why this is not a good source for my opinion.

user Black Wolf:
Yes I know that Muhammad did send a letter allowing those of christian faith to practicise their faith.
link.
I also know that Islam rose up in Arabia around 500 - 600AD, which was a place of warring Arabic tribes at the time, still those sections are in the Quran, which was denied by everyone who replied to me except you.
ISIS follows the quran and the sharia quite literally without room for interpretation, which is obviously a bad thing because its more than a thousand years old.

For those who just joined in a tl;dr for you:
Spoiler >

old Re: November 13 Paris terrorist attacks

Pehlivan
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The site looks trustworthy. But, it's the best to read the original Quran and if you didn't, don't post (some) verses and think you've any knowledge about the Quran since everything can be faked in the internet.
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